On most measures, expert Vim users performed even worse than novice Emacs users. Vim users, however, more often report enjoying using their respective software. So it was vi or nothing. So i learned vi. This is why vim is a text editor, and ides like Atom or VSCode are not. Vim focuses on keymaps, both built-in and user-defined to quickly and without a mouse, jump around, change and manipulate text and code, in a smart way.
The other thing is that vim is just fast. I spent a couple years in VSCode and everything about it felt slow and not well thought out. The git integration is not helpful and the opposite of intuitive, as such it would be better off left out entirely. Simply put, vim requires retraining to really understand, but it is better for people who care about rsi, people who care about speed and efficiency, and people who simply want a consistent environment across multiple machines.
Even though Python is much easier for a beginner to grasp environment-wise, a good IDE like PyCharm still offers code completion, integrated debugging, PEP-8 hints, smart refactoring not just rudimentary find-and-replace , regex testing, and a host of other helpful gadgets. Aye, these are very good points. At that stage, the important thing was learning how to write a program. Mucking about with environment settings, makefiles, of task runners distracts from that, and can be learned soon after.
A great example would be the Arduino IDE. The whole compile-and-deploy thing is done with one button. Those of us who are willing to learn to use flexible, useful tools will continue to be far more productive than those that resign to be unable to do anything not given to them by their IDE.
There was never a war between Vim and Emacs. Emacs is a single mode editor like every other and requires use of chords, chords and more chords. Vim is a dual mode editor and that feature alone unleashes a storm of fast efficient functionality that can be used from second to second as you type. This effectiveness has never been bettered in any editor since, although it has been emulated many times.
Stubborn and irrational resistance to change? The question I ask is why are so many coders, people that I would expect to be able to tolerate high information loads and deep complexity, why are so many coders resistant to learning the few basic Vim commands that would set them free to greater efficiency and power, not only in a windowed environment, but also when managing headless servers and working remotely? I am a 24 year old developer. I use vim, any IDE is incomplete to me without either vim emulation or an nvim connection.
Modern IDES have the main advantage of being mostly ready to go out of the box whereas vim requires a mountain of config to reach a similar level of functionality. However the main advantage of vim is the speedup in thought-to-code translation time. With marcos, registers, and the modal nature of vim you can format, modify, create code significantly faster than if constrained by mouse movements and precise clicks. Once you get used to vim, not using vim feels lackluster and slow.
I encourage all young developers to give vim a shot! Learning the many keystrokes of vi and emacs takes time and practice, but the end result is a developer that can edit code much faster than a developer using the competitively narrow range of key shortcuts a modern IDE provides see: efficiency competitions such as vim golf.
The limit is in the skies, but when you put tmux terminal multiplexer and fzf command-line fuzzy finder , the limit is beyond the skies. Emacs is arguably one of the most powerful things ever developed, and I can make it do anything I want by writing Lisp. And the Emacs community in general is ridiculously intelligent. There is a disconnect between the knowledge of old Unix wizards and what the newcomers to Tech perceive as valuable.
A lot has changed in years, but a massive amount of fundamentals are unchanged. Yes, I was always frustrated by notepad and edlin!! I feel no temptation to use vim, but I am much happier using bash now than Windows explorer. If I were to choose my editor, it would be one compatible with Brief — I have never seen anything better for quickly getting 2,3,4…N separate panes on the same file. The only thing that is currently brief compatible is very expensive. Oh, please. I wish that electronic medical record systems had a vim mode.
I tried to get access to the data elements used by Epic and was repeatedly told that was off limits. We have to be button clickers. The frustration especially when overlaid on sleep deprivation drives me bonkers. OK Boomer! Seems a bit absurd to me. I rarely use it any more, though. Vscode is my text editor, my debugger, my file explorer, my terminal emulator, my ssh client, my build system and error parser, my embedded executable uploader, etc….
It certainly takes time to get these things configured, but not as much as it did ten years ago; with the introduction of package managers, installing ALE and LanguageClient has become a piece of cake. You just have to know that these things exist in Vim, and ignore the many who have a very limited view of what it can do. Do yourself, and your employers a favour, and always make time to modernise….
Beginners, teenagers learning to code tend to use IDEs. I use an IDE. So what? Well, maybe there is a reason for this. World class programmers also use IDEs, and novices also use vim. It really just a matter of building the toolchain you feel most productive in. I use both every day, personally. The second point about vim vs. I full time Emacs user but I like vim. Vimium is how I survive a web browser. For me Emacs is the application platform, unified environment: each key press is a programmable customizable command.
Naturally, there are lots of programming modes. Moving to Vim for me was a choice, and I feel way more productive for doing so. The article really reads to me as derogatory to those who choose anything but VS Code and the kin.
Totally agree. And then there is performance. This also completely ignores that modern vim and neovim, as well as emacs can have many IDE-like features by installing a few plugins. Was this article intended to be written from an objective perspective? Just use whatever works for you. The article is just entirely spouting off their ignorance of Vim and Emacs. Genuine question! As stated below, I have recently gone the other way.
I know there is something about raw text editors — like driving a manual car with the top down on a country road — but what was it in particular that turned you away from VS Code in the end? Suppose you are asked to do a simple calculation.
Would you refuse to work until you got Excel installed in your machine? Of course not — you could use the calculator that comes with your OS. Vim has its own language, with verbs, modifiers and nouns and that simple concept translates into incredibly complex actions with very few keystrokes.
The only issue is the learning curve. I have yet to find any other IDE capable of the power of vim. But the concepts at the core of vim are powerful and I wish modern IDE followed suite. Unfortunately, I think it suffers from being written as an Electron app in the performance department for some things, and I do end up preferring VIM over VS Code as well.
However, with PyCharm or Visual Studio the full Windows app for me it was a whole different ball game. Transitioned from BBEdit to vim a couple years ago. Living in the terminal is an upgrade in itself, especially with tmux in the mix. A company, in the end, is always self-serving.
Git control? Have you heard of Org mode? Have you read the calc manual? I think this is a bit harsh on vim. Still, through extensions, vim offers autocomplete, code actions, refactoring, syntax highlighting, linting and the like. There are people that think Atom, Pycharm or VScode are better than vim or emacs.
They either work in management or are tech journalists. Things that only programmers need to do like changing the first character of each line in a section of code, or repeating the last thing you did multiple times, or using regular expressions in search and replace. An IDE is an integrated development environment.
This contains lots of tools a programmer needs such as a text editor, a compiler, a run environment, probably a visual GUI editor, some sort of source code control. You can use it in any IDE. I never leave comments on things like this, but this blog post seems heavy on opinion and light on empirical evidence. You already have to learn your tool and plugins no matter what environment you use. Hate using an editor that requires a mouse. Slows down my input, thinking etc but then I discovered vi in and used it every day since.
I even set visual studio up to use it despite the limitations it then has.. I tried to use pycharm, php storm, vscode, but all of them seems too heavy to me, with vim my feeling is that the editor is really light. This is a stupid post and reeks of ignorance. Vim can do anything any modern IDE can do if you want it to but.. The operating system is the ide. Vim is the editor. Vim can do code completion, colored highlighting, auto-indent, inline doc, jump-to, search and replace, run a terminal, execute terminal commands and insert results into file, multiple buffers, multiple panels with resizing and rearranging.
All your IDE features were in vim first. Atom is essentially a vim-inspired editor written in JavaScript with emacs style keybindings. How many times do you lift your hand from the keyboard and reach for the mouse in a coding session?
And a big advantage of vim debugging using e. VeBugger, is that the exact same keybindings will work with different debuggers. That means transitioning to a new language does not mean a muscle-memory overhaul.
The same goes for autocompletion, finding references etc. Now, I use vim for both of these languages and the transition is seamless.
Vim is more than an editor, vim is a language and a tool to translate intent into code. I can 2p to paste something twice, or 12yy to copy 12 lines. I can edit multiple lines at once, and substitute text using advanced regular expressions. All without any plugins. I can move freely through the document without my wrist leaving the home row of the keyboard. Putting it short, learning vim gave me a super power being able to control the computer in the speed of thought.
If you want me to switch to your editor, and tempt me with a vim mode, then you need to give me something in return. All the plugins I have fancied in VSCode or Atom has equivalents in vim either by plugins or just being native. And the only thing can see being awesome in VSCode over both Atom and vim is the git integration. But again just using the git cli gives me more features, and allows me to simply type in what I want into my shell, and it will be done.
VSCode and Atom are not like the new Playstation, where I need to purchase the new system to be allowed access to buy the new games. VSCode and Atom are trying to take the fundamental graphical editor, designed for the computer illiterate person who does not want to learn how to command the computer, and tacking on programming helping features. This is great, I would have loved to have VSCode when I was in elementary school writing my first programs in notepad.
So why change from a program designed to efficiently translate intent into code. To a methodology of writing where its simply designed to allow a computer illiterate being able to enter text into their computer? Why change from vim to VSCode with the vim mode plugin, when it will use two magnitudes more memory, be slower, and require me to move the mouse around for the menu items? You need to give me something more than the new editor looking fancy, and telling me that my editor is out of date for me to want to switch.
It should be noted that most people who ended up using with vim have used IDEs before but finally moving to vim. I have personally used many IDEs in the past, and also liked them, no question. I nevertheless switched to Vim bindings at some point because that was faster for certain things. I even have my zsh configured to use vim bindings. You might say I have vim in the terminal stages pun intended.
Which can all be done in Emacs. Arguably Emacs has the best git interface of any program magit. Did you know SO runs in Windows? I mean do you expect to learn how to be a power programmer from Windows people? I hate Google for suggesting this garbage article.
All hail magit — it is truly a thing of beauty. These authors obviously have no idea what Emacs and even modern Vim are like to use. Agreed Atila. I think the big difference between most IDEs on the one hand, and vim and emacs on the other, is that IDEs typically target only one or two programming languages. That forces developers to learn how to configure and use multiple IDEs in order to be efficient. I agree about Magit; in Vim there is a port called vimagit, which is also top-notch. Visual Studio and various other IDEs are doing half-assed attempts to match this.
It is disappointing to see that Visual Studio thinks that svn names map to git actions, making their version very confusing to use. Wow, what an acerbic gauntlet thrown to the users of Vim and Emacs — shots fired. I do wonder: are the authors sad that the Vim-vs-Emacs wars are cooling down, and want to stir up a new war? I started programming no more than 5 years ago. I started to use VSCode and whatever that looks pretty.
I was hearing a lot about Vim but never tried it until I did. It was an eye-opener to the speed I could reach while editing code. Its such a huge inconvenience to go back and forth from the mouse.
Vim allowed me to shred my code while keeping my fingers at the home row. Sorry vim is not arrow keys but hjkl for single character movement. If hjkl are arrow on your keyboard thank vim. I wish there was a 5-minute edit window here for when I post while half-asleep. Not really. How many people expected to learn something then realized 5min was wasted from their lives reading this? An similar article could make the exact same kinds of arguments, and be just as woefully misguided:.
Why are so many IT professionals using Ubuntu and Fedora? Why do F1 racecar drivers use custom racecars carefully optimized to their driving habits?
Why do more advanced users invest time and energy to become more efficient than most people? But for those of us who want and need to be more precise than our mouse can be on screen, vim and emacs are the most widely available options.
Honestly, the people I see using IDEs are mostly working on legacy systems, and people using vim or other text editors are working on vanguard technologies. To a large extent, IDEs are training wheels. They lessen the cognitive load, facilitate adoption of unfamiliar technologies. But, like training wheels, they also limit you. I find some of the history behind the Emacs vs Vim debate rather interesting, but I was not even born in the 80s. I found vi on my own during high school, I graduated in , and after climbing the rather steep learning curve, I now use it for almost everything.
Most of the so-called modern tools do a lot for their users. And in my experience, I have seen many programmers that do not understand what their editor is actually doing. A good example would be managing git repositories. Vim and Emacs both are extremely customizable, and any feature that one desires can most likely be found in a plugin.
Also, the latest release of Vim is only from last year. Rather, I think the big divide is more of a philosophical approach; do you want it to do everything for you? Or do you want something that stays out of your way unless you tell it otherwise. I think the worst IDEs are the domain-specific ones because then you end up with like six different IDEs because they are very opinionated on what languages or tools they work with, specifically all the terrible embedded ones like uVision from Keil.
Also no mention of ultra edit. That was my go-to for a while in the early 90s on windows systems. Notepad is trash. For one thing, vim is always there well vi is , but emacs very rarely is.
Vim is usable by anyone familiar with the key bindings whereas emacs without your personal customizations can be a nightmare. For another thing, vim vs emacs is a meme that does not really reflect reality.
One of the most popular plugins for emacs is evil-mode which brings in the vim key bindings. I came to both after being an avid visual studio, crimson, jedit, sublime text which I lectured on , intellij, and atom user.
In fact most people I know making the switch are young developers. So why did I move to emacs over the darling of the hour vscode? Ever notice how vscode has no golden ratio mode? No ability to position the terminal the same way as other windows? To split and rotate windows at will? I use it because for the most part, it makes me far more effective than the alternatives. There is much to be annoyed with in emacs and vim, but the newer IDEs need to mine then a heck of a lot more for ideas before I jump so again.
I can easily switch to Kanji or ancient greek and create Anki cards to help me with both. I can extend the editor and the UI, override anything to create a domain-specific editor for stuff no one is ever going to produce a commercial product to support.
Emacs is the Unix Philosophy taken to the ultimate extreme — it does one thing and does it well. Did I miss something? That is what Vim gave me, a way of thinking. Honestly what I want is the Vim-way of editing mixed with the modern way of organizing my editor.
For now Visual Studio Code with vim mode is a quite pleasurable experience in my opinion. I have a unique take as someone that is just starting out in their coding journey. I dont really care what others find easier. Its what I find easier and more comfortable. Not sure criticizing people for wanting to stick with whats fastest and easiest for them to use makes any sense. The article is low key trying to start something, but people getting angry over it clearly enjoy a fight, too.
I have been programming for 25 years. Never once did I think that fingers were the bottle neck. It was always the stuff between the ears. If typing is taking most of your development time, you are probably not doing it right. Modern editors and IDEs are great. The older editors are too archaic and have key bindings and design constraints based on limitations of the eras when they were developed.
The only proper use for them is in terminals where better alternatives are still not available. They are good to have around, just in case, but rarely the optimal choices. They are fallbacks. Use rmate with a modern editor.
VNC in unless you are constrained by the network. Use productive tools, not tools that just have you doing busy typing to make you feel more productive. People often confuse furious typing with productivity. Why do programmers use them instead of IDEs? Because they are IDEs. Game over. Back to IDEs. Knowling that I can break out basic vim whenever needed, like on a server. Author makes a lot of baseless claims.
Developer in 30s, work with many developers in 20s. Almost all of us use vim because it is so much faster once you know how to use it. All of us have used IDEs and rejected them. Vim offers power, speed, and fine grained control. It can be customized and extended to anything modern IDEs do faster with lower resource usage. Not as clumsy or arbitrary as an IDE, it is an elegant tool for a more civilized developer.
Vim is a safe haven for every developer who has ever finished typing a line of text and stared despondently at the screen while the IDE struggled to display it a bloody character at a time. Vim is a swiss-army-knife that is not miserable to use over SSH. Vim and emacs are tools for developers who would prefer a more efficient tool that requires effort to learn how to use over a less efficient tool with a lower skill threshold.
My development environment is the terminal emulator. It already has the maximum degree of git integration possible. It can literally do anything git can do, and if you know how to use it effectively, it can do so faster than the IDE. Try buiding a phone app with vim. With vim I can have a consistent editing environment between all of those, including my own computer. However, to just say that vim, emacs, nano, etc are outdated points to a somewhat narrow perspective on the issue.
For new programmers, vim and the like can certainly be a bit awkward to start with when compared to Atom and other IDEs. The authors are talking about emacs and vim like they stopped being developed in the 70s. I have yet to not find support for a language or an environment while working with vim.
Emacs is the epitome of customizable. Not to mention the sheer amount of hotkeys, macros, and extensions that you accrue over time using a single editor. We get it… you like shiny things, just keep using it. Visual Studio streamlines just about every aspect of developing useful software, and vim streamlines every facet of actually inputting and editing text. I want vim to help me navigate text and type, which it helps me do really, really well.
Who cares? You like VI, use VI. You like Emacs, use Emacs. Pick your poison. I find a multi-pane terminal configuration with Vim the most powerful development environment for my current needs.
I occasionally fire up VS Code to work on Jupyter notebooks. Trying to open a data file of a few tens of megabytes on these modern magic editors, you will find that the program will just freeze. I also once tried Atom, which was unbearably slow to just start up. This is really weird. Have you tried Emacs lately?
I has support for LSP, code completion, git, multiple-cursors, project management, linting, real-time LaTeX preview, etc. You can edit it as regular text, search in it, etc.
When you save it, your edits are propagated to the underlying files. I did a grep for the name of the function, placed one cursor on each line of the result, used a keybinding to flip the arguments on each line, saved, and I was done. The only difference with Atom or VSCode is that the whole IDE is built around text, which means that you can interact with all of it with normal text commands.
Vim is great. Everyone wants great editors and everyone wants a thriving editor scene. Making it even better, if you want to do something programmatic with that web browsing, feed reading, email, whatever it is: typically having it implemented in Emacs makes it possible to further script as needed.
To get extensions in most other editors requires either building a plugin or calling out to an external process. For instance, if for some reason you wanted to write a server for testing your web code in real time, you would write it in some other language like Node and then have your typical IDE call Node… but in Emacs you can literally just pull down the web server package and spin up your server in the editor.
Though you just about could. Simplest possible example, think adding tags to your headings and being able to search by tags. Small feature, more handy than it sounds. You can actually add arbitrary programmatically accessible data, and timestamps support various scheduling tools. Some people learn Emacs just for Org Mode, and while I will say it took me a while to learn it, I can also say I recommend as strongly as possible giving it a try.
Back in the day I was writing code for mainframes, workstations, PCs, and even the odd embedded microprocessor system. Uhm, screen latency? Even Vim users break out an IDE from time to time. But all the featuritis does indeed come with an usability price. Not everyone can put up with it all day long, whether they realize it or not. I have used simple editors like geany, gedit even notepad sometimes. I have used heavyweight IDEs like eclipse, netbeans, visual studio, aptana studio, intellij etc.
The i found visual studio code, and i thought, wow, its great, i have finally found something simple but feature rich or at least has the features i need. I have used vscode for nearly 2 years. I loved it.
Then came in Microsoft, started to mess around things. In a simple one python script editing session, i found my computer hanging over and over again. After investigating, i found the reason was the ms python language server was taking nearly 6GB of ram.
It was just little script, a Qt application. Very tiny script to be honest. But the ms language server was eating up every bit of ram it found. May be it was some bug may be something else was wrong with it. I was getting frustrated about it. It wasnt just the ram, vsocde and its extensions were killing my processor too. So i started looking for something else.
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